It has been send of “By His Own Hand”:
This is a valuable addition to the Lewis and Clark literature. This slim volume contains three outstanding essays, one by James Holmberg of the Filson Historical Society in Louisville, a second by John D.W. Guice, professor of history emeritus at the University of Southern Mississippi; and an excellent round-up of the arguments by Jay Buckley of Brigham Young University. This anthology is highly readable and well-edited and will be enjoyed with anyone with an interest in Lewis's sad fate.
For those of you participating in the mock trial it is a must read! Please share your reflections, comments, curriculum ideas and respectful responses to "By His Own Hand" below
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ReplyDeleteHi. I have gotten about half-way through this book. So far I have been fascinated by the research that has been done by the author(s). I have to admit that I had no idea that Lewis had died a violent death (by suicide or homicide). This book has opened my eyes to information I had never learned in school. I think one of the most interesting things that has been evident is the attitude of the times regarding suicide. People would much prefer that a hero was killed by someone than they should have taken their own life (even today, the fact that someone took their own life is not talked about openly). If Lewis did commit suicide, would that take away from all of the excellent work he did in his lifetime? Would history take a different view of him depending on homicide or suicide? What does anyone else think?
ReplyDeleteI can understand not wanting to talk about it being a suicide. By doing so, to some it would seem like it was a glorification of it. They have done studies and have found that the more you talk about suicide the more people commit suicide. They see these people getting recognition and feel that is a good way for them as well so they end up copying just for the attention. They have found the same thing with the school killings. I don't think it would take away from his life's work but for some it would overshadow it. Besides, people like to have their heroes as infallible and honorable and suicide does not fit into our view of bravery, courage and honor. To have our heroes die a tragic death by the hand of someone else just seems more heroic. We don't like to view our heroes as troubled.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest concern in the suicide theory isn't so much that it negates Lewis's heroism as much as that I was taught (and have therefore taught others) that Lewis's suicide was a foregone conclusion. After reading the text it seems to me that the evidence is pretty scanty, and that in fact it could be either suicide or homicide. He said, she said, yet nobody saw. In addition the fact that he may have dealt with depression (no diagnosis was ever given) is not evidence that he was suicidal.
ReplyDeleteClearly the evidence for homicide is just as scanty; however there were ample reasons for folks to want him out of the way. Given the history of Aaron Burr and James Wilkinson I am surprised that Lewis's associates did not insist on a full investigation. I will be interested to see how the mock trial we hold plays out
I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that makes me go against so many eyewitnesses and historians in their belief that Lewis committed suicide. True, the accounts can be questioned, but any testimony can be questioned and found to have holes in the story. I will read on and see if my ideas and thoughts change as I read the final essay.
ReplyDeleteI will be intersted to see if the mock trial changes your mind?
ReplyDeleteWhat are some of the strongest arguments made by Holmberg, Guice, and Buckley?
ReplyDeleteI am about 12 pages into the essay, Why Not Murder?, and i have noticed that most of the arguments so far are based on; "could have," "possibly was," basically a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda type of statements. Also a question for whoever knows the answer to the question, what type of guns did Lewis take with him on his trip to Washington? In answer to Dr. Jay, i don't want to give up any ideas i might have to the prosecution. Maybe if you want I can e-mail them to you. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteLewis is a mess at the end of his life and I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for him. Although there are big issues like the lack of a wife and finances weighing on him, I think the delay in publishing journals is the biggest weight he is carrying. I can think of a bunch of reasons why he might be stalling (I remember a bad stretch writing a dissertation as well), but I am wondering if the gaps in the journals that we have from him, whether they were missing or whether he just didn't write during those periods, might be the thing that is keeping him from completing the project. I think the publication will be the only thing that gets him out of his financial/reputational mess, even if it has flaws.
ReplyDeleteDavid, I went to the general questions post and it says you are the prosecution. Anyway, I suspect as you finish the book you will find the discussion about exactly what kind of guns they were, with a photo.
ReplyDeleteThe murder faction, including Dr. Buckley, seem to have the biggest beef with the Park Service. They seem confident that their case will be proven when the remains are examined. I think the experts on both sides would continue to interpret that physical evidence differently in the same way they have been arguing about the same passages in written testimony for years. My initial thought was, "Why not dig him up? What can it hurt?" However, now I am faced with a different thought - "Why would it matter?" I would expect scholars who have studied it to have a strong opinion and answer to that question, but what about the rest of you/us? Do you have any compelling reasons for or against raising his remains?
ReplyDeleteI was not overly impressed by Guice's presentation. He counters each point with valid possibilities, but they don't support each other well, and so it almost has the effect of making the suicide claims look more and more coherent and inevitable.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there were a couple of points that Dr. Buckley brought out on that side (maybe I missed them earlier) that I thought deserved more attention and scholarship, such as Grinder's 1839 statement saying that men had rode up and argued that night. With the changing of the clothes, that could be a real issue--what if the men were Neely or Wilkinson's men?
For me the most damning evidence is what was not recorded. Regardless of Lewis' physical and emotional state after the shots, he would have indicated murder if it was the case.
I agree with Cory. if he was shot by another assailant he would have indicated it. But he does the opposite according to the boy. According to that story he tells the boy that he did it himself (pg. 34 at the bottom of the Russell quote) The only way all this evidence that is for suicide can be refuted is by claiming that all the people involved were all in league together to kill Gov. Lewis. Another thing i didn't find for most of the supposed conspirators is a motive, at least not one that would appeal to all those involved.
ReplyDeleteI have just started reading. So far the suicde theory is looking pretty solid. I am anxious to view the events from the side of the murder therorists.
ReplyDeleteBefore I became a teacher I was a Judge’s Clerk for 16 years. One of the things I learned from that period was that there are two sides to every story. And as in most trials, If I only read the case for suicide—it seems like it must have been suicide. If I only read the case for homicide-- then that must also be the case. I’m just about to read A Postmortem Trial and look forward to that putting each viewpoint into perspective before I deliver a verdict.
ReplyDeleteCory, I too have been thinking about Lewis's delays in publishing the journals. In fact, I am intrigued by all of his delays (going East etc.) I wonder if Lewis had too many other things on his mind and he just couldn't get going on the journals. Whatever the problem was, Lewis just doesn't seem to be in a very good state of mind during this time period. Too bad the letter written at New Madrid to Clark didn't survive. I'm curious about its contents.
ReplyDeleteAs with many mysteries of history there seems a lot of conflicting details. As part of the prosecution (David, we need to talk) I've been trying to get all the people and detail straight in my head. WOW! That's been hard. Just when I think I've got it, another twist hits--like Malinda. She just seemed to arrive out of nowhere. I have so many questions like David with motive--but I have a couple of ideas about that--but boy, is it convoluted. I still have Dr. Jay's essay to read. Maybe I'll have it more straight by then. Too bad I can't bring a poster on the trip to plot all out all the details!
ReplyDeleteWith regard to Russell's statement p.34 I find it hard to believe that Lewis shoots himself in the head, then the abdomen, and then walks to the house to ask for water. He then returns to his bed and is found cutting himself with a razor at daybreak. I also wonder why such an excellent marksman had such a hard time killing himself.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that for so many years it was jsut accepted that it was suicide. I haven't finished yet - and maybe someone can tell me, but what or who first began to pose the murder theory? I have to agree that if he was murdered, why didn't he say something about it as he was dying? Perhaps these questions will become more clear as I read on...
ReplyDeleteIt is so funny that before I became this involved with history, I never thought about the "after". All I was concerned with was the fact that LewisandClark went on an expedition and then they returned, period. Now, I am intrigued with what happened to everyone after. I hate to admit it, but I didn't even know how Lewis' life ended, so I actually am coming into this with virgin mind (so to speak). I am still trying to form a firm opinion, but like Kim A., I am curious how Lewis managed to shoot himself a couple of times, ask for water, walk around, and end up in his room cutting himself. I am so curious as how the mock trial will end up.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Undaunted Courage, I wasn't very impressed with the Suicide Essay. It all seemed very repetitive from Ambrose. I wonder if the suicide school has such a following because it was the first? One of the main arguments seems to be that it must have been suicide because everyone at the time seemed to think it was suicide. That seems to be a poor argument on which to predicate the fate of Lewis. There have been a lot of things that were accepted as fact that were later proved to be patently false.
ReplyDeleteOkay,so I don't know that I really buy the idea that we wish to negate the suicide theory because it makes our hero less heroic. In my own mind, it is just a part of the history, and is just another aspect of the tragic hero. It makes the expedition even more amazing and special, even to the point that perhaps Lewis was suffering from PTSD and was unable to cope with reentry to "civilized" American society. I'm not naive enough to think that my own values and beliefs don't color my reactions to the historical record, but whether or not he took his own life of was the victim of nefarious criminals, I just want to KNOW. The dream that perhaps, someday, the National Park Service would allow forensic scientists to examine his remains, and hopefully, finally be able to prove conclusively, either way, is very attractive. (I've been watching too many episodes of Bones, and I would love to think that the forensic scientists would be able to divine the cause of death like they do on TV!) But regardless of the details of his death, I still love Lewis, and I'm amazed at the incredible feat that he and Clark were able to accomplish.
ReplyDeleteI really liked Jay's Essay at the end of the book. I think that really brought all the information together, and he made some really good points. Especially about how the murder side only has to throw enough doubt on the suicide evidence so that suicide can't be conclusively proved. I think the murder evidence definitely does that. There are way too many fishy things going on the night of Lewis's death. That priscilla woman has some serious inconsistencies, and it seems very strange that Lewis, as a crack shot who could "hit a mouse at 50 paces" would be unable to hit himself in the head. I just don't buy it. So murder can't be conclusive, but neither can suicide.
ReplyDeleteSo far this book has been difficult, meaning monotonous, to read. I keep wanting to put it down, instead of reading on as I did in Ambrose. I found the suicide essay extremely repetitive in the information it presented. To me it felt as if the author was stretching, grasping at everything he could to make this a valid essay. Sometimes "less is more." In my opinion, the essay was just too wordy. I am looking forward to Jay's essay being more enlightening.
ReplyDeleteI will have to agree with you, Jill, at this point I'm having a very difficult time wanting to keep reading this book also. I haven't gotten very far yet and it seems that the introduction brought up all the most important points for both sides. I'll keep reading and hoping that the evidence for each side gets more definitive. And Marci, just like you mentioned, I really had no idea how Lewis died before coming into this study. I didn't know there was a debate about whether it was a suicide or a homicide either.
ReplyDeleteAs I have finished up reading the essays on Lewis's death, I am still wondering about many things. I too found a lot of repetition in the reading. I agree that less is more.
ReplyDeleteIf all the murder therorists need to do is place doubt on the suicide theory, then I agree there is a lot of doubt in my mind. I too wonder why an excellent shot like Lewis couldn't kill himself in two shots. If He was able to walk about and ask for water, then why not reload and fire again? There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions for both sides of the arguement. I too am looking forward to the mock trial. Maybe some of my lingering questions can be answered. It would be interesteing to exum the body and have it examined. It would be great if we could find the missing letters and documents.
It seems to me that this is a mystery that may never be solved completely. But, I think it is the mystery of history that keeps it exciting and interesting. I have always loved learning about history. Every time I think I know something about a person or event, something new is presented that changes my view on the topic. The information presented abou Jefferson in these books has given me a differnt view of him. As I learn about each person from history, and as I gain more information, they come to life for me and become more real.
I had the opportunity to visit Monticellon last summer. That helped me put Jefferson into a different light. The readings have helped me see him and Lewis & Clark in a different way and as real people. We often think of people from history as special kinds of human beings. That they have all of these super qualities. That they don't ever make mistakes or do things wrong.
I am really enjoying getting to know the humanness of all of the people. They struggled with life just like we do. They had their weaknesses and fault like each of us. When I remember that they too are really people and not some sort of super race from history, I understand why they did what they did and that they did the best they could.
It is remarkable that Lewis & Clark and their expedition made it all the way to the Pacific and back with out any serious injuries or loss of life. (Except for the case of appendicitis.)
When you look at the struggles that Lewis was going through after returning, and his apparent lack of ability to publish his journals, suicide could be a possibility. Learning about the wildness and unsafe conditions of the frontier murder could definately be a possibility. More evidence is needed for both theories.
I'll admit I'm a romantic and suicide is not romantic, so I am reading this book with a biased point of view. I think the suicide theory is plausible, but Holmberg's view that Lewis's motives are his disappointments does not convince me. Was he really afraid to tackle the task of writing his journals and this was eating at him, or had he also lost much of his initial energy as Holmberg cites that Jefferson had on page 21? Maybe he just didn't want to do it anymore. As to the wife disappointment, I can buy that Lewis was looking for someone like his mother because he admired her so much, and no one measured up, however, I also think that maybe he just didn't want to marry. That isn't so strange. As to his procrastination in going to assume his duties as governor, let us realize that Lewis is from Virginia. He is a city boy who loves socials, fine clothes, and the things a city provides. He also loves travel and adventure, but does he really want to live on the frontier indefinitely. Clark on the other hand had been living in Kentucky and enjoyed the frontier lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteI also feel that the Lewis's territorial secretary Frederick Bates was a real jerk. He disliked Lewis, was probably jealous of him and wanted his job. He seemed to bad mouth him every chance he got and undermined his authority. Maybe he mastermined the conspiracy to kill Lewis and make it look like a suicide. Just a thought.
Tamara...
ReplyDeleteI can see that we have opinions in common (see my comment about the Ambrose book. Like many I found this book incredibly repetative, but allowed the thoughts and ideas to gel a bit--a good with for one of the prosecutors I suppose--however, one argument I have a problem with the supporters of the suicide is Jefferson's apparent complete acceptance of the suicide. I have thought on this and recalled two incidences where I have known someone who committed suicide. (These are no other possibilities situations.) And, although I found them heartbreaking and repugnant, I simply tried to look back at the time shortly before they died for answers.
Isn't it possible that if anyone had come running in to Jefferson and said, WOW...Lewis is dead and no one knows how, he might've called for more investigation rather than being told Lewis had committed suicide and in his shock and anguish simply accepted it?
Sara,
ReplyDeleteI had the same question about Jefferson's and also Clark's complete acceptance of the suicide. I would have thought that both of them would have investigated this much more than they did. And Ed, I'm as confused as you are by the fact that after Lewis shot himself, he didn't really die until hours later. In most suicides, one bullet does it in just minutes. It almost has the feel of being an accident. I'm still reading the book, but after reading Holmberg's section on the suicide, I think there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted differently. I feel that his strongest points concern Lewis's personality traits and how they contributed to his suicide. I have a son who is manic depressive and most of the characteristics of Lewis and his problems with the disease ring true with me because I've seen many of these in my son.
The first half of the book kept my attention. I felt as though I was there sufferieng along with Lewis through his depression and stsruggles, and disappointments. Listening to his 'voice', spoken and unspoken, sounded all too familiar to me. How sad that he did not have family around for support.
ReplyDeleteBecky Mullen
For some reason the second half of the book just sounded contrived, as if grasping for straws. Anyone can take facts and make them sound the way they want them to. Maybe he was murdered. But my gut tells me no. How's that for scientific?
ReplyDeleteBecky Mullen
As I began the chapter on homicide, I felt like the author was grasping at straws. I wasn't happy about that because I really don't want to believe that Lewis would take his own life. However, the more I read, the more I think it could have been murder. I too think the case for suicide has too many inconsistencies. There are too many unanswered questions for me to believe it was suicide.
ReplyDeleteI think Holmberg’s strongest argument is the ready belief of Jefferson and Clark that Lewis committed suicide. Both men knew him well and intimately. I think Guice’s strongest argument is his showing the lack of direct evidence coupled with the 1848 Monument Committee’s verdict that someone shot the governor. They actually got to examine the bones. Buckley’s strongest argument is that if “numerous well-trained scholars can reach absolutely opposite opinions after consulting the same oral and written evidence” then we shouldn’t hastily make our own conclusions. I think it will remain a mystery until we have better forensic evidence. It wouldn’t change my admiration for Lewis, but I’d vote for exhumation of the bones just to solve the mystery.
ReplyDeleteI have only recently began reading this book and similar to some of the other post I am having a difficult time getting into it, unlike Ambrose that I had a difficult time putting down. I am not sure on the thought that if Lewis did commit suicide that it would somehow take away from all that he had accomplished in his short life. I am of the thinking that a person is valued for what they do in life and not by how they die. Thus far from my reading the suicide version seems to be more logical to me. Maybe the trial on the seminar will change my mind.
ReplyDeleteJana and I discussed "By His Own Hand" a lot this week...both of us, after only reading "the Case for Suicide" saw no need for anyone to think that there was any other side to the story. BUT, after reading "Why Not Homicide" and the trial chapter, we both agreed that there was a lot of evidence to support both sides.
ReplyDeleteSince I had to do a lot of research on James Neely, I can see how you can go either way, and it makes me yearn for more evidence to come to a real conclusion of what really happened to Meriwether Lewis on that fateful day!!!
After having read more of the "murder chapter" I now feel the suicide theory has lots of holes in it. For instance,the fact that it was pitch black the night Lewis died and Mrs. Grinder couldn't have seen him wandering from his cabin. Then there's the suggestion that perhaps it was the absence of light that caused Neelly to have to shoot his victim twice. Also, I agree with the statement that said, "If he was so intent on self-destruction, why didn't he reload his pistol and shoot himself again." (p.91) To me there is just as much evidence to support murder as suicide.
ReplyDeleteI have done all the readings and enjoyed them however, like so many that have mentioned above...Jill, Vicki, Ed and more...I found By His Own Hand to be way too repetitive to the point I often said aloud, "Who gives a care?" Why are so many interested in how he died? Death happens. Lewis did great things, why spend so much time on this debate? I don't want to dwell on how he died, but what he contributed. There is hard things that follow alcholism, pain killers, diseases (syphilis) My uncle killed himself after suffering with syphilis for most of his adult life. He contacted it while serving during World War Two. He and his wife raised nine children together. I have had lots of schema connection with Lewis and the possibility of committing suicide.But no in our family thinks about how my uncle died, we dwell on how he "lived!" But I don't think Lewis committed suicide because he couldn't find a wife or didn't get the papers published. He suffered from depression and drinking and drugs and disease hurt him. What good would it do to prove that someone killed him? What true motive for a conspiracy and a cover-up? If I had a close friend and knew they would have no inclination to commit suicide, I would demand a full investigation. President Jefferson and Clark felt he was capable of suicide so why the debate?
ReplyDeleteOh to have been a fly on the wall......
ReplyDeleteI have finished this book now and it has a lot to digest. I felt just like Kim and Rebecca in their recent comments, that the case for suicide has a lot of holes and that there is serious doubt on both sides of the issue. I found it interesting that the authors weren't just looking at the evidence from the people who were living at the time (I think they called this contemporary evidence), but also at expert opinions from historians and other researchers who lived anywhere from later 1800's to the present. I'm wondering about the reliability of each type of evidence. Some of the modern day researchers sound very convincing, too. Would their testimony have as much weight as the people who actually lived through that event? I enjoyed Dr. Buckley's objective look at both sides.
ReplyDeleteVickie,
ReplyDeleteI think you have a good question about the reliability of each type of evidence. I hope Dr. Buckley will address that on our trip.
Why would anyone question Pernier? I had a hard time following why anyone would suspect Pernier. I have become interested in knowing more about his death. When Jay mentions his death is "suspected of being suicide or by murder made to appear self-induced." I just think that is 'modern day thinking' and not actually how people thought back in those days. Anna
ReplyDeleteIt's always bothered me that neither Clark nor Jefferson called for an investigation of Lewis' death. Today as I was rereading By His Own Hand, it seemed not only plausible but probable to me that when Jefferson had a long talk with Clark (p.129) after Lewis' death that he probably did counsel Clark not to pursue the issue and told him instead to focus on getting the journals published. Following that, it makes perfect sense to me that Clark voiced his misgivings about Lewis' death to his family and they investigated his death after Clark died.
ReplyDeleteI agree with several of the comments that there are holes on both sides. There are so many could have, should have, might have, why or why nots to convince me of murder. Maybe the trial will change my mind, but as for now I believe that Lewis committed suicide.
ReplyDeleteAs made the 2 1/2 hour drive down to Layton this evening I had some time on my hands for some reflective thinking. I came to the conclusion that I am kind of a hypocrite. Every year at the beginning of school I tell my students to not simply accept what is in their text books as pure fact. There is so much in history that is open for different view points. There are some things that we can not simply state are fact. That is why I love history. My sister is also a high school history teacher and we have very different viewpoints on certain historical events. I have always been taught that Lewis committed suicide, that is what is in the books. As I finished the book I have decided to have more of an open mind. Maybe his death is not as simple as it has been presented to me in the past. Can't wait for the trial.
ReplyDeleteI am curious to see what the mock trial is going to prove? It is not like our group is really that qualified to re-enact the whole drama of it? I am curious what is going to be played out. See you all tomorrow. I did my three posts if anyone is counting. Anna
ReplyDeleteIt is an interesting quandry that evidence is subject to testimony which is entirely subject to uncountable and unravelable subjective lenses.
ReplyDeleteWho saw what when, and the meaning of what was seen or heard, is as elusive as trying to understand the state of mind of a man who died 204 years ago.
On top of that, the "evidence" we are left with is sketchy at best and has been "interpreted" as many times as "Gilgamish".
On the basis of the evidence, I am perfectly willing to believe that Lewis did not begin his own demise, but probably accepted the inevitable and attempted to further the process.
I have bipolar children. My family is rife with suicide. No case is "put it in a box with all the others".
I am eager to see what the jury decides.
I'm coming late to the party. I found this book dull and repetitive so I was hoping the trial would liven things up a bit. I went into the trip thinking suicide and I still think that. Lewis seemed to be very scattered on his return to the east. I wonder if he felt like a kid at the end of the school day. It's over why rehash it. Maybe he felt guilt at his failure to keep a daily journal on the trip and didn't want to have to admit that to his many fans. Maybe he had writers block. Maybe people expected more of him then he thought he could deliver. The witnesses at the trial were not very convincing so I still believe it was suicide.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this book, I was shocked at how little evidence there really is for either camp. And what little there is, it is connected to people who could quite possibly have their own agendas. If only there were CSI equipment back in the day! I find it poor historian scholarship to be able to say for certain either way, suicide or homicide. I couldn't say either with absolute certainty.
ReplyDeleteI found our exercise of the mock trial very interesting, especially because it exposed those who were prepared, and those who were not. I will admit that I was a little frustrated to have not been called up, unlike Libby's "there is a God!" exclamation for not being called. I prepped and researched off microfiche about Frederick Bates. After doing a more thorough look at him and his hatred for Meriwhether Lewis, it was then that I began to understand how complex of a situation his untimely death was in. After learning of his passing, Bates- Lewis' secretary, wrote a horribly timed criticism of Lewis. I found it extremely distasteful to write a gossip letter about Lewis moments after his death, showing the extreme work environment Lewis had been dealing with and causing me to not know what to think about the many people who added complexity into the shady events that resulted in the death of Meriwhether Lewis.
ReplyDeleteGosh, Darlene! Too bad we couldn't have known it--not that we would've called you because you had nothing for our case but way to go for being so prepared.
ReplyDeleteSara
After reviewing the posts, I am surprised to see I only posted one comment here. I actually read the book a second time since returning from the trip and enjoyed it much more than the first time. Perhaps because I'm more familiar with the people and events. Thoughts to consider: Given Lewis was a prominent figure of the day, and a military one at that, why was no formal investigation called? Why did no one in the general public question? Was it because interest in the expedition had waned? Was it apathy? What was the environment of the day? Were people afraid to speak up? Why no military funeral? Why do so many historians today hold to their personal verdict, whether it be suicide or murder? Why do they allow their minds to be closed on this issue?
ReplyDeleteThoughts to consider about Neelly: He reported to Jefferson that Lewis was "deranged in mind" while on the trail. Did Neelly take advantage of Lewis' fragile state of mind, encourage him to drink, then murder him? Neelly did feel that Lewis was in debt to him and owed him money. He retained some of Lewis's possessions as security for that debt. Also, Neelly is the first person to use the term, "suicide." Does this make him more suspect, trying to cover his bases? Neelly did bury Lewis quickly, yet did not report the death to Jefferson until a week later.
ReplyDeleteComment on Anna's June 21 post about Pernier: When I read the book and learned that Pernier had committed suicide just six months after Lewis, I questioned that information/conclusion. My thought is, was he murdered by the same assassin to rid the world of a witness to Lewis's death?
ReplyDelete